To me, they’re two aspects of the same thing: a pursuit of the will of God. I don’t see any dichotomy between the “pietistic” and the cultural and social. As I read and studied and meditated, my vision of God grew, and I came to see the obvious things: that he is not just interested in religion but in the whole of life, and - in the old phrase - in justice as well as justification. Some people might divide your ministry into two halves: one focused on pietism, and one concerned with the very broadest social, cultural, and economic aspirations of society. John Stott spoke to Roy McCloughry in June 1995. I think I could finally only say, “Well, in this society you can’t get away with it,” and call the police. I couldn’t, ultimately, argue intellectually against somebody who did something I found obnoxious. They’ll say, “This is the society we want to live in.” Without having a rational reason for it necessarily, I’m going to do whatever I can to stop you doing this.” I think it would be more: “This is not a society in which I wish to live. I think I would be fairly hard put to it to argue on purely intellectual grounds. If somebody used my views to justify a completely self-centred lifestyle, which involved trampling all over other people in any way they chose. He was old and sick, and he didn’t contribute anything to society.” How would you show them that what they had done was wrong? Suppose they say: “Well, we accept the evolutionist world view. Suppose some lads break into an old man’s house and kill him. Richard Dawkins spoke to Nick Pollard in February 1995. I believe in other people’s belief, in being genuine. I end up just saying I believe in belief, and I keep wanting. But I felt, “Oh dear, there’s a cock crowing,” and the reason I didn’t admit it was because it’s really uncool.īut, well, I’m not sure I am, really. said to me on the radio, “You’re not a Christian,” and I laughed and said, “No”. You are on record as saying, “I am not a Christian,” but now you’re saying you’re a sort of one. Sometimes, I sit in church and think, “This is complete bollocks, all of it, and always has been,” and then a month later I’d sit there thinking: “This is all there is.” I am the sort of Christian that Evangelicals get very upset about. Ian Hislop spoke to Martin Wroe in January 1995.Ī lot of people get into that church groove when they get older, have children. It wasn’t until I realised that I really hated the Church in some ways that humour came back and depression went away. Very angry that people who alleged that they were concerned with the gospel and with grace and forgiveness didn’t give me the benefit of any doubt at all. I suddenly tumbled to the fact that I was absolutely furiously angry inside - furiously angry with the fact that, for instance, fellow bishops, many of whom I know hold the same views as me, didn’t put their heads over the parapet. I can remember a public occasion in Birmingham Cathedral where I expounded what I had to expound, and there was a reception afterwards with the Lord Mayor and a lot of pukka people, and them saying quite condescendingly, “Oh, I see, you believe, do you? You believe in the resurrection?” I almost felt like saying: “Do you think I’d bother with you lot if I didn’t?”
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In the beginning - the episcopal beginning - yes, it really amazed me. Do you think you have been fundamentally misunderstood?
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You have said that your biggest mistake was supposing that people would assume you were asking questions from a position of faith, not doubt.
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It’s almost physical.ĭavid Jenkins, then Bishop of Durham, spoke to Roy McCloughry in May 1994. When I do not pray, or do not have a meditation, it is like not having brushed my teeth. One’s life would be a shambles if I didn’t have that as a kind of anchor. Desmond Tutu spoke to Michael Schluter in February 1994.įor me, it would be impossible to engage in the kind of public life I have had if this was not undergirded by an attempt at a spiritual life.